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HOW TO OVERCOME THE HOUSE EDGE AND TURN IT INTO A PLAYER’S EDGE
Posted: 15 March 2015 09:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
palestis
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mogul397 - 15 March 2015 06:45 PM

palestis

I have a question.

You are talking about seeing no hits in “squares”.  4 numbers
in a square.  For 3-4 spins.

If this is the case, what about simply looking at the 4 spins and then
selecting 4 squares that did not hit, based on what just did?

And using those squares?

Mogul

I was talking about betting 3 square bets totally picked randomly. (12 numbers in total as each square bet has 4 numbers). Every square should be in its respective dozen. Like 1/5, 17/21, 25/29.
What I was saying is that if I bet 3 squares at random, and then bet the next spins, at random again (meaning the squares you pick are not the same in every spin), then you will find that it will be very rare to lose
more than 6 times in a row. So if you lose 3 times without actually placing chips ( virtual bet), then in the next 3 actual bets it is very likely that you will hit.
Keeping track of 3 same squares missing doesn’t work, as they can go on missing for many spins. Like 20 -30. Easily for 10 spins. You don’t want to follow something that already has shown tendency to sleep.
Randomly choosing 3 different ones in every spin matches the randomness of roulette. So you play in equal terms against the roulette. Try it and see what happens.
Then take a score card and track squares missing and see how easy it is to be missing for many more spins, compared to those that were picked totally at random.
You made a hint in another post about waiting to lose without betting chips, a few times, then bet with real chips for fewer bets. This is a player’s greatest advantage. As he uses up his losing chances without monetary loss, then he places actual bets when his chances to win are far greater. Don’t get concerned with lost winning opportunities. What you have to be concerned is the most frequent winning range of whatever you play. That’s the range you must aim to bet. It results in more waiting time, but the outcomes are worth the wait. You wait from 9-5 to make a day’s pay at work. Y not in roulette?

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Posted: 15 March 2015 09:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
mogul397
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This looks like this Ellison method.  I literally came
across yours and this one at the same time tonight.

Seems like there is broader interest.

http://www.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=120.0

Weird, but there is some depth to the topic.

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Posted: 15 March 2015 09:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
mogul397
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I guess what I was thinking with my question was, why
can’t you select the groups regressively with what you
currently have, using the squares that just didn’t hit,
and continue from there?

Why would you need a waiting game?

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Posted: 16 March 2015 04:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
pauli1976
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House has and will be ever more edge than players, if it not be that way there would be not casinos at all.

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Posted: 16 March 2015 05:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
atlantis
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Also for anyone interested in “squares” see my topic “Quantum Quads” ideas and examples here:

http://www.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=14624.msg123813#msg123813

Regards,
A.

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Posted: 16 March 2015 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
palestis
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mogul397 - 15 March 2015 09:46 PM

This looks like this Ellison method.  I literally came
across yours and this one at the same time tonight.

Seems like there is broader interest.

http://www.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=120.0

Weird, but there is some depth to the topic.

Ellison’s system involves 3 quads and 2 DS’s. You bet on either group depending on conditions. By the way it’s not a bad system. It works well most of the time. Low risk too.

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Posted: 16 March 2015 10:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
mogul397
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Hi Atlantis,

I was looking over your quad system. But it ended with you throwing in the towel.
So I’m not sure what you are saying by tossing out the link. I was following it, and
even posted at the end, and it fell dead. Is it working for you now?

Hi palestis,

Well “tongue in cheek” I’d want to agree that it works “most of the time, since it
claims a 7% edge. But I was just digging in and comparing the two ideas.
How much work have you done with either of these?  The Ellison seems to get
good feedback.


BTW this is me not being sarcastic or critical like so many people are or accuse
people of being here.  Just good conversation.  And information.

Mogul

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Posted: 16 March 2015 11:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
mogul397
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Hi palestis,

So I read your explanation carefully. Now I see what you are saying.
There is part of me that want’s to laugh. But I see what you’re saying.

So I just took a 1/2 hour break and thought about this. And am wondering
how this is different than just playing a dozen in the same manner?

You “guess” at the dozen and if you are wrong 3-4 times you keep guessing
with the idea that you will win?

It is easier than tracking quads….

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Posted: 16 March 2015 12:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
palestis
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mogul397 - 16 March 2015 11:13 AM

Hi palestis,

So I read your explanation carefully. Now I see what you are saying.
There is part of me that want’s to laugh. But I see what you’re saying.

So I just took a 1/2 hour break and thought about this. And am wondering
how this is different than just playing a dozen in the same manner?

You “guess” at the dozen and if you are wrong 3-4 times you keep guessing
with the idea that you will win?

It is easier than tracking quads….

Yes you can play the same way with the dozen. Or even 2 DS’s. The only difference is the payout is bigger with 3 corners if you hit the target early. Nobody knows when you will hit. It could very well be with the first spin.
I don’t play the 3 corners at the Twin River, because there is usually someone else using cash chips for inside bets, and in that case I cannot bet inside with cash chips. So playing with 1 dozen is more practical.
But I found that statistically it works a little better with 3 corners, than 1 dozen or 2 DS’s. 1 dozen and 2 DS’s leave a bigger blank space on the layout. Where 3 random corners covers a little bit of everything in the layout. Maybe that’s the explanation, but the fact is that with 3 corners you have lesser negative runs. Proven with thousands of tests.  That’s y I prefer the 3 corners. You can also do the same with 4 random corners.
The idea is that random betting matches closely the randomness of roulette. To lose, the random roulette results must negatively zig zag continuously the random choices. And that’s very hard for the roulette to do.
Especially if you skip a few losing bets virtually. Following what’s missing is a biased bet. It bases the bets on what happens before. Random betting relies on pure statistical chances. In this case 33.3%.

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Posted: 16 March 2015 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
petespin
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palestis, is it a bad idea to wait virtually for a section on the wheel, instead betting table s layout ; whats the difference ; i ask u cos you re from the very few that all your posts are really very interesting to me , from your expierence a dozen can sleep more or less than lets say tiers section;

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Posted: 16 March 2015 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
mogul397
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Well Petespin, I think I can answer your question (I already asked it in my head)
He is talking about “guessing” at selections the whole time. So you intentionally
don’t get locked into a sleeper.

palestis I think you would still be jumping around sufficiently with the dozens.
Not sure I see why it would matter.

So you are from the area?  When they got real tables it had been so long I
almost forgot what they looked like.  I felt a little out of place in general.
Roulette or craps. And I think the roulette in particular runs slow.

The payouts on 4 corners and a dozen should be the same. Both 12 numbers.

But it’s the kind of approach that requires a lot of work, since you actually have
to bellie up and guess. Not just fit data.

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Posted: 16 March 2015 03:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
palestis
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petespin - 16 March 2015 12:50 PM

palestis, is it a bad idea to wait virtually for a section on the wheel, instead betting table s layout ; whats the difference ; i ask u cos you re from the very few that all your posts are really very interesting to me , from your expierence a dozen can sleep more or less than lets say tiers section;

It’s not a bad idea at all to go by sections on the wheel. The only difference is the bet amount. To bet a tier you need minimum 6 ships. To bet a dozen you need just 1 chip. Any section of 12 contiguous numbers on the wheel is identical to tier. They just name tier a specific section of the wheel so that players aim at only a specific section. When many other 12- number sections have the same behavior. But players never think of those.
They follow what the casino specifies as a convenience. I find that missing sections on the wheel are no different than missing sections on the table. As you can see when I was writing results every day in casino Loutraki,
I was observing the wheel too. I have seen the tier missing 27 spins, and also one dozen for 28 spins. But that’s very rare and you will not see that every day.
The best way is to specify how many spins you will bet on something that is missing for specific spins. If for example you specify that you will play the tier for 3 spins,  after you see it missing 5 spins in a row, you will have much better results, than betting non stop after you see it missing for example 10 spins.
Because the roulette doesn’t follow the same exact patter every time. In this example if you see the tier missing 5 spins, it is very unlikely that every time will go missing for 9 or more spins. Most of the time it will show up in the next 3 spins that you will bet.
Missing sections of the wheel are no different than missing sections on the layout. Tier is just one specific section. When you observe dozens you observe 3 of them. That’s y you find a longer missing dozen more often than a missing tier. If you observe more 12-number sections on the wheel besides the tier, then you will see more frequent misses because you observe more than one section.

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Posted: 16 March 2015 03:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
palestis
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mogul397 - 16 March 2015 03:07 PM

palestis I think you would still be jumping around sufficiently with the dozens.
Not sure I see why it would matter.

So you are from the area?  When they got real tables it had been so long I
almost forgot what they looked like.  I felt a little out of place in general.
Roulette or craps. And I think the roulette in particular runs slow.

The payouts on 4 corners and a dozen should be the same. Both 12 numbers.

.

Well the jumping around with just dozens is more constrained. As they are only 3 of them to random guess one each time. Where 3 corner combinations are more, and therefore you have many more random choices.
I just found that in testing, 3 corners have a lesser change to be wrongly guessed, as opposed to dozens. But the difference is not that great. So either way, if this system is played with discipline, one should have very good results. Twin River added tables I think 2 years ago. Before, it was strictly all slots, with some virtual black jack stations, and an auto roulette which is 100% slot. The wheel doesn’t turn and the ball doesn’t spin. Instead a round white light spins around the wheel and stops whenever it is programmed to stop. And people think they are playing a real roulette.
And yes that’s the idea behind random guessing. You don’t get locked into a potential sleeper. It’s a lot easier for one specific thing to go to sleep, especially after it has shown initial sleeping tendencies, than something that does zig zags and changes all the time

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Posted: 16 March 2015 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
mogul397
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palestist

The thing about what you are saying is that you are looking for you
bad judgement 3 time for all 3 teirs.

What I am saying is that you are going to be guessing still. Guessing
for dozens. As such it doesn’t matter if a dozen sleeps. Because you are
just guessing and will be moving around.

Perhaps there is some level where jumping around on teirs fragments it more
somehow, but it is accomplishing the same thing. Or at least not locking you
onto one thing.

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Posted: 16 March 2015 04:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
mogul397
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I see your point.

The slowness of the real tables still bothers me. One time I was watching
a marquis at that front table. I went upstairs to the airball for a while.
(10 min?) and came down. Maybe 3-4 numbers came out. They have
one dealer raking in all these chips and sorting them and whatever.

Then the raise the min to $15. (With $200 max of course). I feel like
I’m doing battle.

Where do you live?

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