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Observations for finding an edge
Posted: 10 January 2017 07:51 AM   [ Ignore ]
sacbnc
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Total Posts:  1
Joined  2017-01-10
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Hi all,

I’ve read of a few occurances of people trying to beat the roulette wheel by finding edges from the wheel itself, i.e. tilting and/or imperfections on the wheel.

I went to the casino the other day to try and observe some of this but failed to find anything.

However I did notice 2 things:
—The wheel is divided into 8 sections, the dealer threw the ball consistntly from the same 2 of 8 sections
—The dealer normally drags the wheel round to bring the ball closest to him/her, then throws the ball from that point
—- Furthermore to this - I noticed what seemed to be a pattern in the number in which the ball was thrown from the number it landed on. I didn’t take notes as not to look suspicious so have no numbers, but a rough estimate is that 1/3 of the time it landed within 8 number of the starting, 1/3 it landed within 12 and 1/3 it landed outside of these ranges. Obviously such a small sample size isn’t anything to get excited about but it certatainly was exciting observing this.

After coming on this forum, seeing the term ‘wheel clocking’ and googling it, I discovered this (which isn’t surprising) is an already discussed activity.

I have a few questions regarding this, that I wasn’t able to find direct information regarding on this site or elsewhere.

1. If this is a thing, why haven’t casinos prevented it by some means?
2. Has anyone made any real money from this?
3. Are casinos very aware of it? Will they generally chuck you if they identify you are doing it?
4. Has anyone got a formula of quick method for working out which numbers surround number X - without memorising the entire distribution on the wheel?
5. Has anyone done any work to see what kind of edge you could derive from such an activity? A hypothetical situation where you have a 50% chance of the ball landing within 8 numbers of the starting number would mean:
—- 17 bets made on each spin, 1 for each number either side and the original number
—- If I won 5 times and lost 5 times, I’d lose 85 overall and win 95 overall, which is around a ~10% edge?
—- I doubt the actual application of this is as good as that (but welcome any information that contradicts this doubt)

Thanks

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Posted: 10 January 2017 09:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
sergiy
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Total Posts:  1603
Joined  2014-01-02
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sacbnc - 10 January 2017 07:51 AM

Hi all,

I’ve read of a few occurances of people trying to beat the roulette wheel by finding edges from the wheel itself, i.e. tilting and/or imperfections on the wheel.

I went to the casino the other day to try and observe some of this but failed to find anything.

However I did notice 2 things:
—The wheel is divided into 8 sections, the dealer threw the ball consistntly from the same 2 of 8 sections
—The dealer normally drags the wheel round to bring the ball closest to him/her, then throws the ball from that point
—- Furthermore to this - I noticed what seemed to be a pattern in the number in which the ball was thrown from the number it landed on. I didn’t take notes as not to look suspicious so have no numbers, but a rough estimate is that 1/3 of the time it landed within 8 number of the starting, 1/3 it landed within 12 and 1/3 it landed outside of these ranges. Obviously such a small sample size isn’t anything to get excited about but it certatainly was exciting observing this.

After coming on this forum, seeing the term ‘wheel clocking’ and googling it, I discovered this (which isn’t surprising) is an already discussed activity.

I have a few questions regarding this, that I wasn’t able to find direct information regarding on this site or elsewhere.

1. If this is a thing, why haven’t casinos prevented it by some means?
2. Has anyone made any real money from this?
3. Are casinos very aware of it? Will they generally chuck you if they identify you are doing it?
4. Has anyone got a formula of quick method for working out which numbers surround number X - without memorising the entire distribution on the wheel?
5. Has anyone done any work to see what kind of edge you could derive from such an activity? A hypothetical situation where you have a 50% chance of the ball landing within 8 numbers of the starting number would mean:
—- 17 bets made on each spin, 1 for each number either side and the original number
—- If I won 5 times and lost 5 times, I’d lose 85 overall and win 95 overall, which is around a ~10% edge?
—- I doubt the actual application of this is as good as that (but welcome any information that contradicts this doubt)

Thanks

If you want easy ways, desist now. It will economise you tons of money. If you are serious about it, Google ” jafco roulette”. And generally Google around..

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Posted: 24 January 2017 05:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
The Midnight Skulker
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Total Posts:  1398
Joined  2010-01-28
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sacbnc - 10 January 2017 07:51 AM

Hi all,

I’ve read of a few occurances of people trying to beat the roulette wheel by finding edges from the wheel itself, i.e. tilting and/or imperfections on the wheel.

I went to the casino the other day to try and observe some of this but failed to find anything.

What you were looking for is known as wheel bias.  Back in the day—as in waaaaaaaaay back, before computers—biased wheels could be found, though typically only in smaller casinos.  By all accounts I have seen/heard today’s manufacturing processes, revised wheel designs, and analytical software have all but completely eliminated wheel bias as a viable advantage play technique.

sacbnc - 10 January 2017 07:51 AM

However I did notice 2 things:
—The wheel is divided into 8 sections, the dealer threw the ball consistntly from the same 2 of 8 sections
—The dealer normally drags the wheel round to bring the ball closest to him/her, then throws the ball from that point

This is known as a dealer signature.  Dealers are trained to vary their spinning technique, but even experienced dealers admit they sometimes go on “autopilot”, initiating each spin in a consistent manner.  When this condition is encountered it can be exploited, just don’t expect to find it all that often.

sacbnc - 10 January 2017 07:51 AM

—- Furthermore to this - I noticed what seemed to be a pattern in the number in which the ball was thrown from the number it landed on. I didn’t take notes as not to look suspicious so have no numbers, but a rough estimate is that 1/3 of the time it landed within 8 number of the starting, 1/3 it landed within 12 and 1/3 it landed outside of these ranges. Obviously such a small sample size isn’t anything to get excited about but it certatainly was exciting observing this.

You have now crossed over into [cue Twilight Zone theme] Visual Ballistics (VB), IMHO the only way of actually beating the game: by attacking it at its mathematical foundation that all numbers have the same probability of showing on every spin.  I will confess I am not much of a roulette player—craps is my main game—but it appears you can make VB as simple or as complicated as you wish, with the accuracy of its predictions varying inversely with the number of variables you consider (as well as with your computational ability of course).  For example, if I understand your report, your rudimentary experiment showed a 33.3…% chance of picking a winning number by betting on slightly less than 25% of the total numbers available.  Experts like sergiy and VB Meister include many additional factors (e.g. ball size, atmospheric pressure, price of tea in China) in their analysis.  I personally think they go overboard (and so did I with the Chinese tea reference), but I am a far cry from an expert on roulette mechanics—I claim to bring some familiarity with the math of the game to the table—and IIRC they claim a 10% advantage on the game (vs. your off-the-top-of-my-head observed 8%).

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My name is Skulker Luis de Midnight.
You killed my bankroll.
Prepare to die.

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Posted: 27 January 2017 07:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
sergiy
Sr. Member
Total Posts:  1603
Joined  2014-01-02
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For these concerned with vb. VB itself is just a way to forsee ( predict) rotor position in the expected ball’‘s fall of moment.
  Ball may do as it likes, beating different diamonds, making different jumps ...ets. All of different ball behaviors will be reflected on the chart ( prediction - outcome).  Charting from prediction to otcome achieve one important effect- it displays best zone ( multiple zones) that collect results , basically it’s a graphical answer to where to bet in relation to your prediction.
  However this way of looking into ball travel and ball jumps dispercion ( besides being very helpfull), may be misleading.  It’s due to the fact that conditions change from time to time. Many novice and ” expirienced ” players as well, do not realise magnitude of these changes and their affect on final result. These should be studied and monitored. How exactly to perform such study and montoring l will explain on my ” vb school ” section of roulette 30 forum only.

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Posted: 30 January 2017 09:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
David6666
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Total Posts:  238
Joined  2017-01-01
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David6666 - 10 January 2017 11:49 AM
Sergei made this comment.


“Do you see, blavinder, casino Victoria in front of wich one you made a photo on your face book, used to have g4 interblock autoroulette with from 0.5 £ to 50k per number( lm still missing that one),  Empire has 100k per number , hyppodrome has 20k per number… and it’s just these lm aware of.
  It just proves that you are a cretin who do not even enter casinos, you just take pictures to show how ” good ” player you are”.

email from empire casino london today at 10.26am. i can forward a copy to any member for validation. sergei has not have a clue about roulette and now has been caught out by email. 100k on number sergei. email states 1k.

Hi David,
Thank you for your enquiry.
All our tables are public tables.
Most of our tables have a minimum of £2.00 going up to £500.00
A few have £5.00 minimums and £1,000 maximums.
I hope that helps.
Kind regards
Siobhan Harrison
Club Administrator
Empire Casino
5-6 Leicester Square
London
WC2H 7NA
DD:  0203 014 1028
M: 07946709765
mailto:[email protected]
http://www.lciclubs.com
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