There is no system which can overcome the house edge without the use of an AP strategy of some sort. There are many AP strategies out there, some better than others, but it all depends on the wheel you are playing too. A system which uses a mere betting strategy alone will not affort the player even the slightest edge over the house…so in the long run, you will lose. This is not to say that all systems for sale are frauds, however. Even a system with a strong AP method at its core, takes alot of time and patience to make it effective. Many times it involves waiting for the perfect spin, which may only be 1 in 20 or so, again, depending on the wheel you play on. Also, wheels with rather irratic scatter patterns take much longer to play than those with more manageable ball scatter. There are many rules which must be adhered to as well, for the advantage player. Some of these rules include spin analysis which, depending on the individual wheel, could take hundreds or even thousands of spins, and many times a wheel must be re analyzed regularly as they are serviced weekly. All of this, and the potential hours sitting at the wheel, picking and choosing your spins, and the prep work which must be done before you can play…..you can see why alot of advantage players choose to sell thier systems. It doesnt mean they have retired as players, it simply means that they are exploring new means of revenue by teaching others what they know….something that does not impare their play one bit..contrary to popular beleif….in turn, this helps those who wish to learn to make a little money for themselves by playing the game a chance to do so. If no one ever taught someone else what they know, then the number of AP players out there would be little to none. Now the question is how much do you charge someone to learn what took you years to develope? Well, not free…I can tell you that. Some may not mind sharing their knowlege for free, but of coarse many AP players have gained their knowlege from someone else…they took the short cut. Someone like myself, who learned AP on thier own and developed their strategies through years of play and wheel analysis….well then, why should that be free? It costs money to make money….and its all about the money. The only way to profit from a solid AP technique is not necessarily at the casino….just something to think about. The old saying “those who cant do teach”...isnt always true….otherwise there would be no college professors or school teachers out there, then where would we be?—-Brian