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Wheel Clocking
Posted: 01 December 2011 08:37 AM   [ Ignore ]
roulettedealer
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Hello all, this is Brian again. I recieve emails from time to time from forum members with questions about the AP methods I use. I recently recieved an email asking how you can time the speed of the wheel and the speed of the ball for the purposes of employing various AP techniques. This is really quite simple. While there are a few different methods for doing this, one of the most basic, and one I would recommend every beginner learns, involves using a reference point on the wheel. Now, when choosing a reference point from which to clock wheel and ball speeds, it is best, in my opinion, to choose one of the vertical deflectors. I always choose the one which is most easily viewable from my position at the table, which is always next to the wheel. Remember, that you must always have full view of the wheel when using any AP techniques which involve clocking wheel and ball speeds.
  First off, you have to choose your reference deflector. This will be the point of reference you use to begin and many times end your counts. To clock the speed of the wheel, you must chooose a method in which you want to count the amount of time it takes the wheel to make a full rotation. You can use seconds, or any other method you choose. I like to either tap the table, of use a mental count. Whichever method you choose to use, make sure you can consistantly maintain an even count. Practice makes perfect.
  Once you have chosen your deflector for reference purposes, and you have determined your method of counting, you now must choose a point on the wheel face from which to begin your count. I like to choose one of the zeros as they are easy to see as the wheel rotates. Once the zero has passed by your reference deflector, begin counting. Remember to keep your eyes on the zero as you count, and finish your count as the zero passes by the reference deflector for the second time, completing one revolution. You have now clocked the speed of the wheel. For some methods of AP, you may have to clock the speed of the wheel at less than a full rotation, this all depends on the method you are using. This is simply a method for which you can determine how fast the wheel is spinning.
  To clock the ball speed, and for the purposes of this lesson, you will not actually be counting the speed at which the ball is traveling, but rather how the speed of the ball relates to the speed of the wheel. Once you learn to do this, you can use this method to find the ball drop point using various AP techniques.
  Lets say for an example, that your wheel speed was clocked at 3 seconds for a full rotation. Now, to clock the ball, you will wait for the ball to be spun, then wait for it to pass by your reference deflector. Once the ball has passed you ref. point, begin your count while watching the ball. Count in the same manner as when you clocked the wheel. This time, once you reach your count of 3 (the wheel count), stop counting and notice which number is beneath the ball. This is the number you will use to determine the drop point of the ball, and how this number relates to the drop point all depends on the paticular AP method you are using.  This number is now directly related to the drop point of the ball in some manner, I am not going to get into how to determine the drop point using this number in this lesson, you must first understand the basic principle of clocking.
  Now, when you clock the wheel and ball in this manner, you have begun to discover the relationship between the wheel and ball speeds, you see, since the ball was clocked based on the wheel speed, your ball speed is now relative to your wheel speed. This is a very important step in determining the ball drop.
  One thing you must understand is that it is not really as complicated as it sounds. Yes, you have to study the relationship between the wheel and ball speeds, and figure out where the ball is most likely to drop based on this data, but it is really as easy as counting to 3….in this example. If you can maintain a consistant count, then you can clock the wheel with ease. Once you have collected your spin data (wheel and ball speeds), you will now simply plug the information into whatever AP technique you are using and you will be there. In reality, what you are measuring is the deceleration rate of the ball, and determining where the ball will drop based on the rate of deceleration and its relationship to the orientation of the wheel, and the wheel speed at the time of the ball spin. Now, that may sound really complicated, but all of this is automatically figured for you when you employ your paticualr AP method. All you need to know is the count, and how to use it with the AP method you have selected. The rest is automated. Once you have found the drop point, all you need to do is add ball scatter and youve got your projected landing zone. Any bet in this zone will have an added advantage placed upon it as it was determined using an amount of foresight.
  For those of you persuing AP, and looking for an easy way to collect and analyze various spin data, this should help you out a bit. This is a tried and true method of clocking wheel and ball speeds, and the foundation of my integration into VB. I took this method and used it to develop some of my best AP methods. You can refine it, and make it even easier to use once you have grasped the concept. You can tailor your counting to specific wheels, and different methods of advantage play. There is no cut and dry way to play when it comes to VB, it is all concept and interrpratation. What works for one person may not work for another. You can litereally take any method of VB and create dozens of variations. The possibilites are endless, and in the end its all about customizing a technique to best suit you and the wheel you choose to play. I hope this made sense. If anyone has any questions, let me know. Good luck.—-Brian

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Posted: 28 December 2011 05:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
rusa71
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roulettedealer - 01 December 2011 08:37 AM

  Lets say for an example, that your wheel speed was clocked at 3 seconds for a full rotation. Now, to clock the ball, you will wait for the ball to be spun, then wait for it to pass by your reference deflector. Once the ball has passed you ref. point, begin your count while watching the ball. Count in the same manner as when you clocked the wheel. This time, once you reach your count of 3 (the wheel count), stop counting and notice which number is beneath the ball. This is the number you will use to determine the drop point of the ball, and how this number relates to the drop point all depends on the paticular AP method you are using.  This number is now directly related to the drop point of the ball in some manner, I am not going to get into how to determine the drop point using this number in this lesson, you must first understand the basic principle of clocking

Thanks Brian for your lessons.Let me ask you about this part of the article.In which revolution of the ball we begin to count untill 3?In very first revolution?Or propably could be wright if we begin to count,for example, on forth revolution and then always on forth?I mean,no matter on which revolution we begin to count but always we choose the same revolution.Sorry for my English,I hope you understand a question))).Thanks

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Posted: 29 December 2011 02:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
roulettedealer
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Hello. I think you are asking which revolution you want to begin counting on. The ball revolution you begin counting on will be determined by your wheel count. You will have to let the ball slow a bit depending on how fast it is traveling before it will reach its “ideal ” speed, which would be a certain ball speed in relation to the wheel speed. This will be different from wheel to wheel. It all depends on the size of the wheel, the ball being used, and other factors. When searching for the Ideal revolution in any clocking method, you must be waiting for the ball to be traveling a paticular speed. In other words, you are waiting for the ball to make one complete revolution in X amount of time, you may have to count the ball spin from revolution to revolution until it slows to that ideal speed, then you can determine the ball drop from this point. There is no universal revolution for which this can be done, it all depends on the speed the ball is traveling in relation to the wheel. I hope this makes sense. The specifics of how to use this info to determine ball drop is something I do not discuss out of fairness to those who have paid to learn my system, but you can use this type of wheel analysis to determine this on your own…just play with it a bit and get a feeling for the physics of it, and it will come to you. Good luck.—-Brian

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Posted: 29 December 2011 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
rusa71
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roulettedealer - 29 December 2011 02:31 AM

There is no universal revolution for which this can be done, it all depends on the speed the ball is traveling in relation to the wheel.—-Brian

Now I understand this.Thanks Brian!

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Posted: 20 April 2015 06:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
sergiy
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I red the topick 5 times already trying hard to see any logick.  Original autor states that he has to upply time of full rotor revolution to the ball to see number related to the strike number. And he needs to start it in specific ball revolution.  Or lm stupid or original autor is!!! Some of us has no brain…
My qwestions are:
If you are upplying time to the ball, wich difference it makes to you what is the damn rotor speed???
Second, if you have to identify revolution of ball to upply time, why you are upplying time??? If you are so skilled in revolution identification,  just take damn wisual read!!!
Why in this world you wanna loose entire time of rotor revolution ??? Do you have nmb when ball stops or what???
This little ” system ” has no chance of working for following reasons
1st. - no rotor decceleration is included.
2nd- lots of time lost
3rd- no time to place betts.
4th- real things wich have to be taken are not named.
What the hell you gonna do with this ” data” ???,

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Posted: 22 April 2015 03:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
petespin
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sergiy the guy has a website and sell ap system and additionally claims hes roulettedealer , is it possible to say bsh ; cheers pete

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Posted: 22 April 2015 04:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
sergiy
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petespin - 22 April 2015 03:03 AM

sergiy the guy has a website and sell ap system and additionally claims hes roulettedealer , is it possible to say bsh ; cheers pete

What he wrote there is bs or not explaned properly. After ball reach particular speed that he is able to identify( l assume that needs still be qweak enough to keep liniarity of decceleration of ball), upplying 3 seconds or something alike is a bliss!!! If he would apply time of target ball rotation randomly during spin, while ball is fast, he would get better resoults.  Unreasonable. .. thats all l can say. Unless he uses that time interval to catch the ball speed and identify revolution,  but in this case he needs to upply same time interval and not the one of rotor revolution time. Somebody just likes it unreasonable and complicated,  not applicable l would say….
I just hope he doesn’t sell methods like this to his clients, becouse if yes- he is a froud.

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Posted: 22 April 2015 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
VB Meister
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sergiy - 22 April 2015 04:55 AM
petespin - 22 April 2015 03:03 AM

sergiy the guy has a website and sell ap system and additionally claims hes roulettedealer , is it possible to say bsh ; cheers pete

What he wrote there is bs or not explaned properly. After ball reach particular speed that he is able to identify( l assume that needs still be qweak enough to keep liniarity of decceleration of ball), upplying 3 seconds or something alike is a bliss!!! If he would apply time of target ball rotation randomly during spin, while ball is fast, he would get better resoults.  Unreasonable. .. thats all l can say. Unless he uses that time interval to catch the ball speed and identify revolution,  but in this case he needs to upply same time interval and not the one of rotor revolution time. Somebody just likes it unreasonable and complicated,  not applicable l would say….
I just hope he doesn’t sell methods like this to his clients, becouse if yes- he is a froud.

Brian has always have a different way looking at AP. His mapping method for instance. Serge…. what he is saying is to use a 3 second interval on a 3 sec wheel. Honestly you do not need a specific 3 second interval you could use any interval as long as you have a strong dd if playing the same wheel speed with the same interval and looking at drop number compared to reference number…. yes it will work. It is all about relation. I say again. You do need a strong dd though.

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Posted: 22 April 2015 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
sergiy
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VB Meister - 22 April 2015 01:37 PM
sergiy - 22 April 2015 04:55 AM
petespin - 22 April 2015 03:03 AM

sergiy the guy has a website and sell ap system and additionally claims hes roulettedealer , is it possible to say bsh ; cheers pete

What he wrote there is bs or not explaned properly. After ball reach particular speed that he is able to identify( l assume that needs still be qweak enough to keep liniarity of decceleration of ball), upplying 3 seconds or something alike is a bliss!!! If he would apply time of target ball rotation randomly during spin, while ball is fast, he would get better resoults.  Unreasonable. .. thats all l can say. Unless he uses that time interval to catch the ball speed and identify revolution,  but in this case he needs to upply same time interval and not the one of rotor revolution time. Somebody just likes it unreasonable and complicated,  not applicable l would say….
I just hope he doesn’t sell methods like this to his clients, becouse if yes- he is a froud.

Brian has always have a different way looking at AP. His mapping method for instance. Serge…. what he is saying is to use a 3 second interval on a 3 sec wheel. Honestly you do not need a specific 3 second interval you could use any interval as long as you have a strong dd if playing the same wheel speed with the same interval and looking at drop number compared to reference number…. yes it will work. It is all about relation. I say again. You do need a strong dd though.

Vb, strong dd not garanty strong ammount of revolutions.  He may use any time interval that match his target revolution for prediction. Even time of last revolution. .. even so he would take divergences between prediction and strike ( or outcome.). Even for perfect wheel without any deffects, wich l haven’t seen yet, it would doubtly work for compensation speed only, due to differences in times of different ammount of revolutions.  In 2-3 pin game he will have spread of almoust 3 revolutions,  wich not help him much with 3 sec rotor speed…. spread would kill any posible advantage. 
Im working now on similar method, but l actually can see why ball don’t arrive where l expect it…. without such ability compensation systems are bliss, unless ball decceleration is taken into account. 
I senserely don’t see howw he would do it, unless by stats method… looking frequently distances, but we don’t have stats on our side when we play, due to conditions changes.
I hope you understand what l mean.

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Posted: 24 April 2015 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
VB Meister
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sergiy - 22 April 2015 04:39 PM
VB Meister - 22 April 2015 01:37 PM
sergiy - 22 April 2015 04:55 AM
petespin - 22 April 2015 03:03 AM

sergiy the guy has a website and sell ap system and additionally claims hes roulettedealer , is it possible to say bsh ; cheers pete

What he wrote there is bs or not explaned properly. After ball reach particular speed that he is able to identify( l assume that needs still be qweak enough to keep liniarity of decceleration of ball), upplying 3 seconds or something alike is a bliss!!! If he would apply time of target ball rotation randomly during spin, while ball is fast, he would get better resoults.  Unreasonable. .. thats all l can say. Unless he uses that time interval to catch the ball speed and identify revolution,  but in this case he needs to upply same time interval and not the one of rotor revolution time. Somebody just likes it unreasonable and complicated,  not applicable l would say….
I just hope he doesn’t sell methods like this to his clients, becouse if yes- he is a froud.

Brian has always have a different way looking at AP. His mapping method for instance. Serge…. what he is saying is to use a 3 second interval on a 3 sec wheel. Honestly you do not need a specific 3 second interval you could use any interval as long as you have a strong dd if playing the same wheel speed with the same interval and looking at drop number compared to reference number…. yes it will work. It is all about relation. I say again. You do need a strong dd though.

Vb, strong dd not garanty strong ammount of revolutions.  He may use any time interval that match his target revolution for prediction. Even time of last revolution. .. even so he would take divergences between prediction and strike ( or outcome.). Even for perfect wheel without any deffects, wich l haven’t seen yet, it would doubtly work for compensation speed only, due to differences in times of different ammount of revolutions.  In 2-3 pin game he will have spread of almoust 3 revolutions,  wich not help him much with 3 sec rotor speed…. spread would kill any posible advantage. 
Im working now on similar method, but l actually can see why ball don’t arrive where l expect it…. without such ability compensation systems are bliss, unless ball decceleration is taken into account. 
I senserely don’t see howw he would do it, unless by stats method… looking frequently distances, but we don’t have stats on our side when we play, due to conditions changes.
I hope you understand what l mean.

I understand what you are saying. Ic however you judge ball speed at +/- same speed when predicting you will bave an edge. I currently uze similar method but with less offset time. I predict very early and very accurately.

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Posted: 24 April 2015 12:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
sergiy
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VB Meister - 24 April 2015 11:35 AM
sergiy - 22 April 2015 04:39 PM
VB Meister - 22 April 2015 01:37 PM
sergiy - 22 April 2015 04:55 AM
petespin - 22 April 2015 03:03 AM

sergiy the guy has a website and sell ap system and additionally claims hes roulettedealer , is it possible to say bsh ; cheers pete

What he wrote there is bs or not explaned properly. After ball reach particular speed that he is able to identify( l assume that needs still be qweak enough to keep liniarity of decceleration of ball), upplying 3 seconds or something alike is a bliss!!! If he would apply time of target ball rotation randomly during spin, while ball is fast, he would get better resoults.  Unreasonable. .. thats all l can say. Unless he uses that time interval to catch the ball speed and identify revolution,  but in this case he needs to upply same time interval and not the one of rotor revolution time. Somebody just likes it unreasonable and complicated,  not applicable l would say….
I just hope he doesn’t sell methods like this to his clients, becouse if yes- he is a froud.

Brian has always have a different way looking at AP. His mapping method for instance. Serge…. what he is saying is to use a 3 second interval on a 3 sec wheel. Honestly you do not need a specific 3 second interval you could use any interval as long as you have a strong dd if playing the same wheel speed with the same interval and looking at drop number compared to reference number…. yes it will work. It is all about relation. I say again. You do need a strong dd though.

Vb, strong dd not garanty strong ammount of revolutions.  He may use any time interval that match his target revolution for prediction. Even time of last revolution. .. even so he would take divergences between prediction and strike ( or outcome.). Even for perfect wheel without any deffects, wich l haven’t seen yet, it would doubtly work for compensation speed only, due to differences in times of different ammount of revolutions.  In 2-3 pin game he will have spread of almoust 3 revolutions,  wich not help him much with 3 sec rotor speed…. spread would kill any posible advantage. 
Im working now on similar method, but l actually can see why ball don’t arrive where l expect it…. without such ability compensation systems are bliss, unless ball decceleration is taken into account. 
I senserely don’t see howw he would do it, unless by stats method… looking frequently distances, but we don’t have stats on our side when we play, due to conditions changes.
I hope you understand what l mean.

I understand what you are saying. Ic however you judge ball speed at +/- same speed when predicting you will bave an edge. I currently uze similar method but with less offset time. I predict very early and very accurately.

lol. So you descovered it as well?!!!  Do you still predict as tilt or like ” level”. My new method works for both wink. Prediction 3-4 seconds into the spin.

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Posted: 19 July 2015 09:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
roulettedealer
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there is no one method which will be effective on all wheels, but rather a methodology which can be applied using collected data to most wheels very effectively. you must understand what you are looking for and how to use it. rotor speed will effect ball scatter, therefore I qualify a spin as playable based on certain criteria being met, one of which rotor speed and the dealer spinning the ball. this will give me a more predictable scatter. I use reference points for timing the wheel and also for cross referencing ball intersections with previous collected data to determine the most likely drop point of the ball, then simply add the scatter. I use a couple of different betting methods to speed up the betting process which compensates for the lost time during the actual clocking. all of this can be adapted to fit any wheel I choose to play, though some are better than others. I also use a mapping method I developed which does essentially the same thing, but this is dependent on exact conditions being met for a particular wheel, and the data will have a “shelf life”, meaning the predictability of this compiled data is only good for a session at most, then must be recalculated. I also like to play in a team, which speeds up betting and allows a check and balances type of play.

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Posted: 20 July 2015 07:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
sergiy
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roulettedealer - 19 July 2015 09:54 PM

there is no one method which will be effective on all wheels, but rather a methodology which can be applied using collected data to most wheels very effectively. you must understand what you are looking for and how to use it. rotor speed will effect ball scatter, therefore I qualify a spin as playable based on certain criteria being met, one of which rotor speed and the dealer spinning the ball. this will give me a more predictable scatter. I use reference points for timing the wheel and also for cross referencing ball intersections with previous collected data to determine the most likely drop point of the ball, then simply add the scatter. I use a couple of different betting methods to speed up the betting process which compensates for the lost time during the actual clocking. all of this can be adapted to fit any wheel I choose to play, though some are better than others. I also use a mapping method I developed which does essentially the same thing, but this is dependent on exact conditions being met for a particular wheel, and the data will have a “shelf life”, meaning the predictability of this compiled data is only good for a session at most, then must be recalculated. I also like to play in a team, which speeds up betting and allows a check and balances type of play.

It’s too complicated. Map ball with the wheel. Wheel velocity changes ,so you need wait your speeds for making to be accurate. Then you have change in conditions…  It’s not that easy to adapt using map method only.
Solution would be treat ball speed independently from rotor speed and adjust for rotor separately. Determining drop point is bs. You can not. At least lm unable to determine drop point 3 revolutions to the end.
It’s unreasonable to expect ball behave same way,even if it has same speed. It can hitt anywhere.And can take wide dispersion in timings also. So looking time till end and plus expected scatter is madness.
Look to the dispersion in timings and dispersion in jumps as ball traver yardage. What you can predict in this case???? You will be subject to double dispersion in timings and ball jumps! It’s not the way to make money!
Brian, as l told before, you do not tell everything in order to be understood properly,or you do not know what you are tolking about.
I totally agree about the team. It helps.
  By the way, lm not saying that maping method is not good,lm not saying that you can’t limit drop points correlating ball speeds…
It’s just too complicated and not required to win.

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Posted: 21 July 2015 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
roulettedealer
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im telling you what I do that works for me, If you cant comprehend it then its because you do not want to or have not tried. im not theorizing, this is what I do. everyone on here loves to dispute everything people say and throw their own theories into the spotlight, but if your theory is working for you then you would not be searching for answers…I am not, I am simply sharing information about what I do because I get bored from time to time and this is sort of a hobby for me. you say that it is too complicated to use, but you are wrong….nothing is easy when it comes to advantage play, atleast not any method that works. you have to practice and get good at it, and it will never be easy. you time the wheel and the ball, you use past recorded data, and you choose the ideal wheel speed and ball size for a more predictable scatter pattern, this is how you do it. you select your dealer based on a list of criteria, and you have to have mastered a method of betting which allows you to place your bets in time. this takes practice and patience and it sounds like you might be lacking in both.

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Posted: 21 July 2015 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
roulettedealer
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let me just add something real quick, if it sounded like I was trying to insult you…I wasn’t. you said that I don’t fully explain what it is I do so that it can be fully interpreted and used, and this is true…I don’t. its no secret that my method is for sale, and that is why I don’t fully disclose any information. mostly I communicate via email and keep a line of communication open with my customers and guide them through the process of cracking whichever wheel they choose to play. I am not soliciting, I am simply letting you know why you might find some of my info incomplete. it would not be fair to the people who have paid for my advice to share it openly with everyone. it took me a long time and a lot of work to develop the method I use, and I felt like I deserved to be compensated for it. nothing in life is free. I do play about 2-3 times a week now, however, I used to only play in a team about once a week, and solo once or twice. I have been traveling a lot in the past couple of years and playing up and down the gulf coast and in vegas. I prefer the roulette in MS and LA and the dice in vegas. I am also a skilled dice controller with a pretty good track record. anyways, just a little about myself and answers to some of your comments. I also trade the Forex market daily, so life is a gamble for me, and so far im up. way up.

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Posted: 21 July 2015 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
petespin
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i ve read almpst all posts og brian and some have print em , and i can say that the way hes refering to his subject [VB]  looks like hes an well educated person and master of advantage play , and he is a dealer aswell , but i want to ask u something about do u believe the only way to beat roulette is VB?

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